goldfarb to take questions about text extenders at 8:30 eastern. "washington journal" is next. ♪ host: we will spend about two hours this morning on the "washington journal" talking about the fiscal cliff. we want to start off hearing from you on a different topic. what do you think about hillary clinton's future and her running for president in 2016? that is our question this morning on the "washington journal."

you can start dialing in now, or you can contact us via social media. you can make a comment on our facebook page. you can also send us an e-mail. from "the hill" newspaper yesterday -- a new poll by abc news and "the washington post." 57% say they support a presidential bid from every clinton in 2016. -- from hillary clinton in 2016. 68% approved of her work as secretary of state.

66% hold a favorable view of clinton after her department has faced criticism over the handling of benghazi and libya. clinton also has heavy support in new york were 54% of registered voters say they would support a presidential bid by her in 2016. that is an "the hill" newspaper. we have lots of facebook comments already on this question. we want to share a couple of those with thieu. jackie says "she has my vote." williams says i think she has been a great job for secretary of state but will not vote for her for president.

andy says hillary 2016. military spouses against the wars says she will fit in perfectly with all of the other war mongerers. those are some of the facebook comments we have seen so far. we are going to begin with a republican in north carolina. caller: hey there, c-span. i am very much against hillary clinton having any elected office in america. i would like any democrats to tell me [indiscernible] during the whitewater investigation was the work under subpoena. that is evidence tampering. those are two felonies she has

committed while she has been in the white house then thehost: bg that issue is something we should be concerned about customer -- do you think that issue is something we should be concerned about? drew is a democrat in baltimore. caller: good morning. host: what do you think about hillary clinton's future? caller: i think she is the next logical step that we need. my grandfather was a democrat in delaware. he served two terms. allyink she is what we re4all needs and what we need for the country to move ahead. host: steven is an independent from connecticut. caller: thank you for taking my

call. i really like hillary clinton. i think she is a hard worker. i think her old man is a hard worker, too. whitewater was like three wars ago. that was a long time ago. i would like to see jeb bush run against hillary clinton. i think they can move our nation forward. host: if jeb bush -- if it is a bush-clinton race, for whom would you vote? caller: oh, gosh. i would lean towards jeb at this piont because he has really been pushing education. right now, he's got me. host: stephen, who did you vote for in 2008? in 2012.ean

caller: i voted for president obama. i really liked mitt romney. why do i have to pay less taxes than my friend from massachusetts? that really bugged me. host: that is stephen from connecticut. tyrone is a republican from the bronx. caller: i think hillary clinton would be an excellent candidate in 2016. i think she handled the middle eastern issue to the best of her ability. also, as far as the gop is concerned, i think she has made strides toward eliminating the tax spending through various commitments with private entities and organizations that are coming out of the woodwork.

i was watching earlier today and what they were requesting from the white house was let's fix this problem by incorporating a small businesses and less government intervention to curb the deficit. it has been astronomical. then i heard barack obama say the way we are going to do it is by making more cuts in various ways. he was saying by making more cuts and the only people it is going to hurt is the working class and somewhat of the middle-class. he should mention the fact that out of control spending has a lot to do with the credit card crunch. specifically because of the middle-class. i think if we get those tax cuts centered with them, i do not think the poll would be affected. you have these small companies

that are developing, and he is saying have those small companies hire more people and get them involved, but come consumer expenditures. that is partially i think a solution. host: you are calling on the republican line and you think hillary clinton would make a good candidate. would you vote for her in 2016? caller: i think she would be a very vital aspect to the political process. as far as her running for president, 2016 -- god knows what may happen from this point to that point. as far as her role as a democrat, i think by working along with the republicans, she would make a difference. host: cindy tweets in --

cindy, you got a point. i thought we would mix it up a little bit this morning. here are more facebook comments. --orie saerie says greg says -- michelle -- terry says -- i says -- melvin, a democrat in miami, good morning. caller: she will get my vote

because i like the ideas that she has been ve. that is why i will vote for her. host: nathaniel in bismarck, north dakota, on our independenct line. caller: hi. my thoughts are i think hillary clinton would be a good choice to run but i already know the republicans plan to put marker rubio and paul ryan in 2016. i think there would be much better choice for both president and vice president because the republicans are trying to win back the minority votes that

beat he crap out of them in this election. host: dan from maryland on a republican line. good morning. caller: i think by the time obama finishes with his four years, i don't think any democrat is going to be foa roud for a while. i think we are in for a major recession. i think people are happy until all the bills start coming in. look at the states and counties that are going bankrupt. i don't think anyone will be in the mood to hire democrats. they will look to the republican out. to bial theail them as far as obama taxing the rich, you notice he does not touch

entitlements. most of the rich is going to get off on tax breaks so there will only be certain rich that will be taxed. host: from "the hill" this morning --

40 something republican senators sent a letter to the president yesterday.

they conclude by saying --

again, this is 40 something republican senators, a letter to the president yesterday. back to your calls on the future for an the rodham clinton. this is a democrat from ohio. caller: i am fine tha, thank yo. i think if we get through these next four years, hillary clinton would make a good candidate and a good president for our country. i think she would move the country continuously. she knows a lot about the foreign affairs. i think she would be a good candidate. host: thank you for calling in this morning.

caller: i am still wondering what happened to all that money they found when they went in over to iraq. could you please get me an answer to that question? host: probably not in the next 30 seconds but that is a good question that you have asked. we will move on to ron on the independent line. caller: in my opinion, hillary clinton or any other right person being an office would probably be the worst possible case scenario for this country and i think it is time that a normal person be elected to office them da. host: ron from indiana.

from facebook, john says -- james says -- diana says -- here are some of the twitter comments we have received. bill says -- and biff -- and steve says -- and finally, jim says --

robert, north carolina, the republican line. caller: after this term of four years with the democrats, i don't think she has a chance. i am a business owner. four more years of this, i will be out of business. host: what kind of business do you have? caller: bulldozer's. host: how has business been over the last couple of years? caller: bad. i am barely staying in business. i do not know what to look forward to. i can hardly stay in business. the democrats in this country i think is wanting to kill us. business people, i cannot stand much more of it.

host: robert on the republican line. linda is in texas. caller: i am just thrilled with the idea then. the only thing i would be more thrilled about is obama for a third term. host: but that is not constitutional. caller: a good president with a good philosophy for this country. what the role of government is, he is the right person at the right time to get this country hope and unity once again. that man who just got off the phone does not even realize he is voting against his own economic interests to follow the republican party platform because they are not about a guy like him. they are not about the little

guys. they are not about the unity of a community spending that is not their philosophy of government spending the purpose of government is. i believe barack obama is on the right track to teach the people that this is what the role of government should be, for the people. not the corporate interests. one other thing. matt asked about c-span? i want to say unfortunately i have been disabled. i am a disabled veteran. i have been not able to work since the end of 1997. the one benefit i have had to have this opinion is i have been able to watch c-span and "washington journal" almost daily.

very much rned so muc that i have never learned in undergraduate hours, law school, or high school. i have learned more about history, government, the true history of this country. not what we have been spoonfed in high school. or in critical about the pleasant stories where we were happy with smiles on their face. where we have come from and how far we have come and how far we can go in terms of really being that bright and shining lfght for other countries to follow by example. host: is that it? caller: please, please, is there

some way we can make texas c- span? they will not go on tv for people who are on satellite. we are bleeding republicans in this state with these voting machines. texas used to be such a good state to be from. host: what do you mean, make texas c-span? caller: i would like to see a c- span texas. i bet there are a lot of people and a lot of states that would like to see that. host: your earlier comments, can we use those for a commercial? thank you for calling in this morning. here is more facebook comments on our question this morning. keenan says -- john says -- sal says -- and ruben says --

don from book raton, hi, don. caller: how're you doing this morning? i know what her husband has done in this country. one other thing i would like c- span to do. i would like you to do a show about medicaid and social security and allies being told about it. they do not add to the debt. it is paid for by your income. they have been telling these

lies for years. go back to the 1960's. if corporations do not want to match, whatever you pay into your social security, they have to match. why are republicans saying they want to cut $200 billion from social security? they are saying the corporations do no longer have to match what you put in. that is a lie. that is why i am tired of -- i used to vote from both lines. this year, i vote for independent or a democrat. black people in this country

used to vote republican. as the times turned, they decided we do not have york economic interests. blacks in this country do believe some of the things that the republicans believe in. we cannot have somebody keep talking down on us and calling us lazy. i worked two full time jobs. i became disabled. i did not ask anything from anybody. i wake up in the morning -- at night in pain. i need back surgery. all they talk about is they don't want to help the people

who are disabled. the republicans are in corporate hands. host: up next is a republican from new york. hi, willy. caller: good morning. how could anybody vote hillary clinton after she stood in front of american heroes and lied to their families and to their country and said it was a video that caused this? host: that is willy from new york. from "the hill" newspaper yesterday --

thomasina, a democrat, what do you think about hillary clinton could go future? caller: as a 68-year-old democrat, i am sure a lot of republicans would feel comfortable with hillary.

i am not one of them. she supported the war but also was on the board of wal-mart. her stands for working women is questionable. she was also on the sides of the banks which hurt the people. i remember when she was campaigning for president in 2007. it was a pretty dirty campaign against obama. she lied when she said her and her daughter were running from a plane in bosnia with the bullets flying overhead. even when it was proven she was lying, she kept repeating it. host: trent in san antonio, texas, on the independent line. what do you think, trent? caller: i just wanted to say that i think we should have a woman president. so, hillary clinton i am for.

i think it is really hard for a lot of presidents because the number one thing is to keep our ego out of it. i strongly support hillary clinton. i am very strong for education. i know that her being a democrat, i know that she would support obamacare and continue to support it and would not damage it in anyway. being a person who is impaired, i really appreciate that. host: last month there was a tribute, a video tribute, to hillary clinton. [video clip] >> she has put that all

together in the pinnacle up until now in her public service which has in deer herd to millions and millions of people all over the world then the. ♪ >> she has been a splendid representative of the united states. >> she is doing it [indiscernible] ♪ >> in the end, it is not about being a good politician. it is about being a human being. >> we have always pushed human potential and promise forward. if you vbet on the side of human rights, human dignity, more countries may have the same extraordinary good fortune that we have.

♪ >> someone who knows a thing or two about political combat. >> i just have an instinct that the best is yet to come. host: tom on our facebook page makes a comment about hillary clinton in 2016. a couple more twitter comments. atxn -- vatex

and m ike says -- jim in michigan, the republican line, good morning. caller: some things i would like to see more of you hear a lot of people talking about voting for somebody who they believe is this gender or this race. let's put someone in place of character and experience and somebody who has done things. getting back to allowing the people to build the country when we were individuals. i think that is important. i think there is a lot more of this collectivism. we're never going to be able to have a president to help these different countries if we are hurting our own country here and

we are not able to grow it. host: tie that into hillary clinton in 2016. caller: i think my concern about her in some regards is tha ti think i do not know how strong of a business persian she is. i think she is more of a liberal to moderate which is fine but i want to see somebody who is very much pro-u.s., pro-growth, and bring us back to growing us inside and promoting that as opposed to saying a more broader scope. i think that broader scope will come about when you have a person with the ability to do that.

i think in the end, it is about looking at their character, looking at their record, and what they have achieved. not about some video being shown. i think a has to be about real things being done to help the country. that is what i want to see. if that is what she can bring forth, great. host: by the way, here is a follow-up tweet by vatxn. now we know what that stands for. from "politico" this morning --

that is a little bit from "politico" on that fiscal cliff. david, thank you for holding. caller: yes, good morning.

host: what do you think about hillary clinton could go future? caller: i do not think she will run. [indiscernible] we have the man that we need [indiscernible] we are not working. there is no way the government can be supported. host: that was david from georgia them but we are able to bring you some live events to date on c-span. this afternoon, the annual christmas tree lighting.

the president will be there. that will be live at 4:30 p.m. eastern time. you will be able to see the lights on the national christmas tree. that is held right in front of the white house just south of the white house. jay on our boat page says -- says -- page scott is an independent from florida. caller: good afternoon, c-span. i am going to say some things you probably do not want to hear but there are the truth about hillary clinton. i think she is very intelligent and on top of her game. when i look back at her career when her husband was president,

we were having attacks on our and the seas. three different emphases. they downplayed it because they were on their way out of their term. hillary did not want any more on her resume so she encouraged bill clinton not to go to war. al lthe sudden, the affair popped up and he was impeached. nothing was done for 911 when they were here for five years. when bush stepped in, 911 happened. no one paid attention to that. hillary kept us from going to war which i think can close to 911. as soon as benghazi happened,

she called up and decided not to be in her position anymore before the intermission came out. i feel she sold out. i think she is very intelligent. people, wake-up. host: sean is a democrat from indianapolis. caller: hello. in my opinion, i believe hillary clinton would be a good choice in 2016. host: why? believe bill clinton was the best democratic president since john f. kennedy. host: again, why? caller: why? people's rights. host: red in west virginia, republican line. hi, red. how're you doing?

caller: i am doing all right. host: what do you think about hillary clinton in 2016? caller: i think c-span is starting to campaign for her already. we haven't seen what the president we have now is going to do for the next four years. i think it is premature to start someone's campaign for them for years before the election. host: you have a point been that we are basing it on a poll that was taken. it is 2012. we are just looking for something different. we are going to be talking about a lot of fiscal issues in the next two hours on this program. we thought we would talk about something different to begin the program this morning. rose from ohio, a democrat. hi, rose. caller: is this c-span?

host: what do you think about hillary clinton could go future? caller: i would like to see her in the supreme court. i know we would be very safe there. we know -- i watch the national program. they were talking about the koch brothers, where they were from and where they were born and how they inherited all this money. the koch brothers own a lot of territory in our country. they own malls, factories. host: is that a bad thing? caller: yes. the movement right now is to get the communist country in here. all the republican parties are

pushing for that fact to run the communists into america. it is being bought and sold by the ku klux klan and the koch brothers. i would like to see if anything happens politically, i would like to see hillary clinton in the supreme court. i am 84 years old but i went to many wars. i am watching what is going on. it just roments me to think he and bush and all the administration before him have brought us down.

that is all i got to send. host: from the commenters section of "the washington times" this morning -- it is written by j. youn.g g. he writes --

host: that is just a little bit commentaryyoung's piece this morning in "the washington times." one more call on this question this morning from phil in

florida on the independent line. caller: the video that you were showing regarding hillary clinton really concern me. she was receiving praise from three notorious war criminals starting off with kissinger. then you look towards tony blair and you finish up with the butcher himself, benjamin netanyahu. the other video that you keep repeating has the state of israel flagged very prominent -- host: that was a video tribute put together by the saban center. that was held in november. caller: thank you for clarifying. my concern is the influence tha state of israel and the

foreigns on america's policy is just out of proportion. paul craig roberts is an economist and former assistant secretary of the treasury. he has been writing about this a lot recently. i think we need to take a look at the state of israel's influence on our foreign policy. i would like to see clinton and bush, all of them, go home and all of these politicians who keep coming back and not serving the american people. host: we are going to move on and talk about the fiscal cliff and some of the issues surrounding that. we are going to look at a specific issue of so-called tax extenders a little bit later with sam goldfarb. he will also be talking about

tax issues in general when it comes to the fiscal cliff. if you have questions about tax issues or comments about how taxes should be included in these discussions, he will be taking your calls. up next, we're going to have a look at republicans and the fiscal cliff negotiations with radio talk-show host and columnist armstong williams. that is coming up next as we continue the "washington journal." ♪ >> why a writers institute? i think it is very important within the culture.

we are a culture of words, of voices. words are key to our imagination, our capacity to envision things. we ourselves are not completely tied to print on the page. but i think that there is no other art form so readily accessible other than perhaps -- but it is something -- there is something in literature that captures the humans. . >> this weekend, we look behind the scenes at the history and literary life of new york's capital city, albany, on c-span to and it c-span3.

span3.c- [bell rings] >> this weekend on c-span3, follow harry truman's eldest grandson to hiroshima. >> everybody has their own view of what happened. survivalant to argue or about the history. i think we are past that. my goal for behing here is to honor the dead nand listen to the living and do what i can to

ensure this does not happen again. >> he will discuss meetings with bomb survivors. sunday at 9:00 p.m. eastern on c-span3. >> "washington journal" continues. host: armstong williams, how do you see the fiscal cliff negotiations going? where do you see them going? guest: there is no doubt that the president signaled yesterday in his conversation to the speaker of the house, and no matter what the drumbeats of the politicians and activists may say to the media, there is no question he is committed to resolving this issue. you cannot resolve this issue

bringing people back to certainty or to help business owners understand the liabilities they will face on january 1, 2013. there is no question that the president and the speaker will come to a compromise. back during the days of former president lyndon baines johnson and the senator leader at the time, some of the issues that are going on -- i will never forget when dirkson was talking to the president, and the president said we should meet this evening. the senator said i think we have reached our wit's end. johnson left the white house and met with the senator to show his commitment and said this is what we have to do. as a result of that meeting, they came to some decisions that were profound. we have to get rid of

partisanship. you have to do what is in the best interest of the people. i think the american people are looking for leadership. putting entitlements on the table shows his willingness to come to a resolution. host: you seeing a willingness on the part of republicans? as a conservative activist -- is it fair to call you that? guest: i am a conservative. host: are you satisfied with how the republicans are handling their end? guest: i think the discussion is too often centered around how the republicans and democrats it.handinling i think what we have in this country today is like the

medical profession when you have an emergency situation and doctors must work together to save your life. it is not about political dialogue. it is about what actions work. i think both parties have gotten us in this predicament. i think what we have to do is understand it is going to take them to stop the bickering and find a way to get this issue off the table and show leadership. you found that mitch mcconnell, the senate minority leader, has criticized john boehner. john boehner should not be concerned about losing his job. he should be concerned about doing his job. his job is that of the american people. i do not want to get caught up in the sound bites. at least bring some kind of leverage, some kind of balance to this crisis.

host: "in new york times" this morning -- guest: what does he have to negotiate? there are three options. you could allow the tax cuts to expire december 31. you can cancel some or all of

the tax increases and spending. that would accelerate a dive back into a great recession or depression. in the first quarter, we would have very little difficulty in distinguishing ourselves from the crisis that is in gulf and europe and especially greece. the other thing we could do is come to a midline course of action where you could actually -- what can you minimally due to cut spending? what can you minimally due to have shared sacrifice so everyone is sacrificing something in this game? the other thing we don't talk about -- the interest rates on the deficit have been the lowest in 200 years. if we went back to what it was 50 years ago, it would triple. ishave not got to thin leaderst

not about being popular or well- liked. he may lose his leadership role. in the end, he would have saved this country from fiscal disaster, from bankruptcy, and a crisis that will affect all americans them that all americans. . all americans. host: what would you like to see done? is this a united opinion on the right when it comes to how it should be handled? guest: let's take the impact of the tax policies. that is a very good question. if you are a worker making $60,000 a year, head of household, and if your income bracket is $60,000 a year, currently he will pay $7,800 --

you will pay $7,800 in taxes which means your net income will be $52,000. if we do not avert that fiscal cliff, your net income will be $50,000.0,000.3 that is the issue we get caught up in. it is more than that. what americans do not realize is 50% of your money is paid in taxes when you are driving down the road and paying a toll, you are paying a tax. when you are going to the grocery store, you are paying a tax. when you are crossing those roads and bridges, you are paying a tax. when you get your water bill, your utility bill, that bill has increased 40% from 20 years ago.

you are paying taxes. where is all that money going? how is that money being spent? that spending is out of control. we have a bunch of drunken politicians who have put us in a financial crisis. who is going to pay for this crisis? your children and grandchildren. americans have to come together and say we are all paying taxes. if you look at your bills -- even real-estate, either you are an owner or a renter. what owners do, they pass on some of the taxes to the renters. americans have to understand this is out of control. 50% of your money is going into texas. now you are talking about increasing the taxes to try to help pay for this out of control deficit.

we have to make sure you are accountable, that you are not spending this money on pork barrel spending, special interest groups, onw ars that we need to be out of. we have to we keep giving you the money and you keep asking for more and now we're in crisis. host: to attend the wednesday meetings of grover norquist? guest: no. host: why not? guest: you have to determine how you'll spend your time. that's not the best use of my time. i think that is something necessary that he does. host: first call for armstrong williams comes from fred in michigan.

caller: hi. i have two questions concerning the fiscal cliff. the cash cuts that republicans -- the spending cuts on medicare. why don't we allow them to negotiate medicare and to reduce the cost of medicine? that should save you a lot of money yearly. i agree totally about the republicans and democrats spending money stupidly just before the election. both sides voted to refurbish something like 170 army tanks that the army said they'd do not need. they went and voted to repair those tanks.

why are we wasting our money? democrats want to cut taxes. host: armstrong williams? guest: we haven't gotten to affordable care and medicare and medicaid. if affordable care was administered correctly and if he did not have the special interest groups and if tort reform was not included, package you move forward in making health care work for anyone if you do not bring tort reform to the table? the medical malpractice lawsuits are out of control where doctors are paranoid and

have to think twice before going through these procedures. it becomes a nightmare for doctors. there are too many hands in the pot. the mentality in washington is that everybody has to get paid so they can be compensated. when a country is suffering the way we are suffering, we need real legislation that empowers the power. we have known all along that was not the case. special interest groups were involved in writing the legislation. the american people have to understand about the special interest groups and how it impacts them. we want to help those who are struggling but oftentimes it is

as far from that as i am from china right now. host: the president yesterday spoke about the debt ceiling and is tied to the fiscal cliff negotiations. [video clip] >> i have to tell you that is a bad strategy for america, a bad strategy for our businesses, and it is not a game that i will play. most of you were involved in discussions and watched the catastrophe that happened in august of 2011. everybody here is concerned about uncertainty. there is no uncertainty like the prospect that the largest economy that holds the world's reserve currency potentially defaults on its debts, that we give out the basic notion that

the united states stands behind its obligations. we cannot afford -- host: whil"the wall street journal." guest: the president does not want to negotiate with the republicans on the debt ceiling. that is like giving a son or daughter a credit card to do with it as they want freely. i think the president has to admit that both sides have tried to break measures and legislations to the table that would reduce the debt ceiling. the president -- look at how the deficit has quadrupled since he

has been in the white house and he wants to spend more money on his special programs. it will give him a full range to spend as he likes without any kind of restriction. it would be irresponsible for republicans and democrats to give this president that kind of power. host: jeff, good morning. caller: good morning. with republicans being cornered as far as the blame, why don't the republicans just vote and pass bills and sent it to the senate and put it in the hands of democrats and let's see what comes down the road. if it crashes, it crashes.

it away, the democrats need to take responsibility. guest: we have to do what is necessary to correct the deficiencies of our operating national business. when you say the republicans should take a position and do what is right, the american people are in the dark of how negotiations work. if you are serious about negotiations and about solving the fiscal cliff -- it is a fiscal slide because you keep sliding. i have learned that if you want to negotiate and come to compromises and conclusions, you do that without cameras and you do that behind closed doors.

once the negotiations are exposed, people react differently and they are compromise. we need to get away from the cameras. the president and john boehner, get away from their staffs and do a give-and-take and say, this is what we need to do. i am willing to fall on the sword. this is what we have to do. everybody takes wins and losses. then in tell the people this is what we want to happen and we move forward. if everybody is disgruntled, then they did a good job. host: carl rover this morning in "the wall street journal " --

karl rover write this morning.

guest: it takes a back to history again. what was happening almost 100 years ago, maybe 99, back in 1933 -- we faced a fiscal cliff. they could no longer pay the deficits. they were paying for the wars we were fighting. congress introduced the federal income tax. the federal reserve when from that. it was about taxing the wealthy. i had not considered this. that's no question president obama has a socialist leanings. he wants to redistribute wealth.

i do. new line-- once this debate is over, the president may have a large agenda. that agenda is that the president wants a wealth tax. that would be different. it was all about it, in 1913. the president wants say wealth tax. that means you tax their assets and not their income. he talked about how mitt romney had these accounts of sure. if the tax the wealth of an individual, then they cannot do this by saying i want to have a wealth tax. he has to negotiate with republicans and couple it with a flat tax. we have to overhaul our tax

system. i think that is what the president's intentions are. host: when is your review show broadcast -- when is your radio show broadcast and what do you talk about? us radio. is on serious rad we have gone into the situation where all we want to do -- the left wants to divinize the right and the right ones to demonize the left. if people do not agree, you want to vanquish them and make them appear to be irrelevant. something happens when people

and they convinced the american people to spend their money, invest in them, vote for me. they get to washington and they become part of the problem and not part of the solution. what is it that changes when politicians arrived in washington? i am a conservative. i would like to be an advocate of the facts. i think this left-right debate has divided us too much. we are being hosed. the television show is on the sinclair broadcast group in prime-time out of cut is so, maryland. closes rest is fox 45 and we're

there on midnight. and then i write. host: that is armstrong williams. please go ahead with your question or comment. caller: good morning. thank you for c-span. i have some comments and a quick question. i kind of disagree, your interpretation of that what the president was saying about the fiscal cliff. he has not said what you just said. most every presidents took that from the message but i do not think that is what he is saying. he says he did not want to go through that again. it doesn't make sense.

i believe you now. it seems like you are softening your position. i do not know if that came from you after the election but i kind of agree with you now. the first thing that peter asked you. how do you think in this moment the republicans is handling the situation? do you think they are handling it properly by this approach to the fiscal cliff? guest: listen, the republicans have an obligation to be a checks and balance system for the president and his policy. you have got to cut spending.

you have to modestly raised taxes. you cannot say that you are not willing to put into how the programs on the table as harry reid said some time ago. my criticism is not that the president is not willing to compromise. i think the president is willing to compromise. my point today is i do not want us to continue to see this as left-right. we need to see this as we the people holding these officials accountable to reach a compromise because there is too much debt is at stake. you should be incensed that congress recessed early yesterday to go home in the middle of this crisis. that to me is an outrage.

what does that say how seriously they take in this cliff will face on december 31? it will have an enormous impact. we should hold the members of congress -- we should do our homework and become educated so we can bring about the accountability that seems to be missing from this debate. host: this is drake on twitter. this is big guns. host: and h. robert asks --

host: back to the column by karl rove in while "the wall street journal." guest: speaker boehner is a very decent guy. he believes in compromise. he is reasonable. we tried to make republicans into a character as if they are insensitive and do not care about the less fortunate. i know people like to go back to the rear their comments with mitch mcconnell said their goal

was to make sure the president does not succeed. the president has won again. we need to work. there are people that do not know how they will meet their mortgage or rent obligation. they didn't know how they will pay their medicine. there will compromise about getting a meal a day or to pay for their medicine. there are real issues. people have to decide if they have enough money to pay for gas. these politicians have the best benefit packages and sometimes have lost touch with the everyday common people. we have to address the real issues that americans are facing.

we all have been diminished in this economy. host: we have a tweet from jim buck. mason in ohio, please go ahead with your statement or comment. caller: i have a couple of questions. i do not understand how you can feed into conspiracy theories by calling obama a socialist. he is willing to make a deal with boehner. the american people spoke wednesday reelected obama. they want the tax cut for the wealthy to expire. we need to leave what you call

entitlement programs alone. what we need to be talking about is boehner it needs to be more flexible about letting those tax cuts expire and it is not spending that is a problem. it is paying for what you spend that is a problem. two wars are unpaid for. guest: it is not my intent to be disrespectful of the president. i have tremendous respect for the president. the president has socialist leanings -- i think that's fair to say. i'm glad you called. think about the cuts in

spending, all the things the president and boehner are talking about. there would probably be $560 billion compared to a $2.7 tr illion deficit is like spitting in the ocean. we have to do something radical. entitlements must be on the table. everybody has to sacrifice in this bill. america must take some drastic measures to at least get us on a path to do something to recovery. host: markkas from washington, good morning -- marcus.

caller: good morning. i was wondering how the corporate governance is being translated into the negotiations. it seems everybody has a lot of money but nowhere to go. host: where are you going with this question? caller: what money they will take to reduce the deficit. they do not know where they will put the money after that. host: any response for the caller? guest: what they are trying to do is cut spending and reduce the deficit. the only after the c i can say that would justify spending is for infrastructure and investment, the kinds of things

that grow this economy. these state governments and their pensions, many are on the brink of bankruptcy. that is more money that we're not even discussed. there are so many leaks in this country. we cannot comprehend the many issues that america is facing. we to ask the government to make sacrifices and we must do the same in our own lives. we cannot spend more than we earn. the government is a mirror of who we are. we are a capitalistic nation. the middle class needs to get

into the wealth class. it is critical that people get the opportunity to create job opportunities for the future of our nation. host: a lead editorial from the paper you opine in once a week, "the washington times." host: are you hearing this from viewers, friends, other people around town? guest: you don't have to hear

it. it is obvious. when you invest all your options into an election and you are convinced you are going to win that election and that is based on your view of social policy and you lose to a guy that many feel has not earned the trust and re-election of the american people because he made many promises that he didn't come close to meeting the obligations of. but still the american people voted him back in power. it is okay to listen to people. you do not want the republican party to be prevalent.

you need to hold the democrats accountable. boehner is showing tough leadership. new ways to compromise and to work with this president. host: so the freedom works. there was a statement about running people against republicans in the house who may compromise. grover norquist has been outspoken. is the right anger with the gop leadership fair? guest: we see that in both parties. sometimes we cannot understand all the pieces to see what is at stake. what boehner is showing is

wisdom. he is thing about the party and the country of the future. do you think the speaker of the house would do something to destroy his base? these are tough decisions for him. this is how leadership is defined. sometimes he has to go into a different season. sometimes you have to find a new season of leadership and government and of sacrifice. that is what the american people wanted. those people attacking you will become your foot stiool. host: do you feel the tea party is an asset to the republican party? guest: you are only an asset if

you're willing to grow and evolve and adapt. this is a new era for america that we have not seen for a long time. unless you are willing to adapt and the president is showing he is willing to compromise when it comes to entitlements and i think we'll see more from president obama and that he will show more leadership. you will see what we're seeing from boehner -- leadership is necessary. host: bonnie from new jersey. caller: i am glad that you see the difference from spending and

investing. as far as spending goes, you are a student of history. spending is lower -- the lowest since the eisenhower administration. i wonder where your voice was when vice-president cheney was telling us that deficits do not matter. this is not anything new. we didn't have to worry about socialism. the banks because the economic meltdown. a plutocracy has been created. we have to worry about the entitlements we are giving to our corporate masters.

states are giving tax incentives in the billions. $80 billion to create jobs. this is our problem. our wages of the lowest since the last great republican depression. host: final ancomment. guest: i feel her compassion. i have been an advocate for republican policies blindly and supported them when they said deficits do not matter. we all must do soul searching. we have to look within. it's what i'm writing and

broadcasting, is it truthful, honest? is it going to move us forward? i can still support speaker boehner and the president. it is about the truth. when we find a higher truth, we are unwilling to abandon it. we have to embrace truth. i am a part of that process and i want to be better. i still loved this country. we cannot do anything unless we start to change within ourselves. we need to become americans instead of divided americans. host: armstrong williams, thank you for being on the "washington journal" this morning.

coming up next, sam goldfarb of cq roll call as we continue our look at specific areas of the fiscal cliff talks. today we'll talk about tax incentives for businesses and individuals and we will look at tax issues and you can: about tax issues and the so-called fiscal cliff. >> a senior official says secretary of state clinton and others are in dublin having a surprise meeting and they are speculating that fresh hopes of a breakthrough may happen and suggesting a possible compromise is in the offing to end the civil war. a senior official says the head

of the intelligence service has been wounded in an assassination attempt. there was a bomb that exploded in kabul as he was receiving a visitor. an update on the negotiations on the pending tax changes. alan simpson in remarks earlier criticized the politics of the talks surrounding the so-called fiscal cliff saying congress put the chain on their own ankle and it is difficult to speculate which party would suffer more if no compromise was reached. he went on to say that if you gave 90% of them a profit loss statement and balance sheet, they would know how to read it. those are some of the latest headlines on c-span radio.

[video clip] >> we have had these explosions of knowledge in medicine. but we have not coordinated care. all these services that we have end up having so many cracks that the cracks are as harmful as the diseases that we're treating. you have to step back and ask, are we hurting people overall, i mean, on a global level? what are we doing sometimes? and of course, now we have the institute of medicine report saying 30% of everything we do may not be necessary in health care when we step back. 30% of all the medications we proscribe, the tests we order, the procedures. this is something i think which is for the first time really being called out as a problem. >> dysfunction in the u.s. health-care industry. dr. marty makary on what hospitals won't tell you. his latest is "unaccountable." saturday night at 10:00 eastern on "after words" on c-span2.

"washington journal" continues. host: we have been focusing on different parts of the fiscal cliff discussion. today we're looking at tax extenders for businesses and individuals. joining us is sam goldfarb, a tax writer for cq roll call. what our tax extenders? guest: they are temporary tax breaks. some people are concerned the entire tax code is turning into a big tax extender. they are considered to be a small provision and targeted at specific types of businesses. host: why are they temporary? guest: a lot of people say they

should be made permanent or they should be eliminated altogether. it is easier to pass when they are temporary. they keep on being extended and extended. host: we will look at some of these. these are some of the tax extenders and the cost of continuing the tax breaks through 2013.

host: some of those are really specific. guest: that is the idea. they have become a case study in what some people think is wrong with the tax code. if there are loopholes that can be claimed to love god and their because of a lobbyist lobbied hard to get there, it is these tax breaks that come under scrutiny. host: why is the r&d tax credit not permanent?

it is passed every year. guest: every year or every two. it actually expired this year and now they are talking about extending it retroactively for this year and for next year. how much sense does it make to extend it retroactively? the businesses have already done their research and developing spending and you're giving them a check for what they already did. it doesn't make a lot of sense. there are some of various not so great reasons. host: what are some of those reasons? guest: it makes it seems like a cost less. something like $14 billion. it would be multiple times more

if they were planning to extend it for 10 years. i would write, "the $1 twin tax trillion tax bill." they are lobbying every year. you can look it up. it is very transparent. host: the tax extenders we just looked at -- with the amt, would that be a tax extender but in a category by itself? guest: i suppose so. the amt user goes in the tax

extender bill and a bill was passed this year, the finance committee passed it, not the senate. it included the amt patch. host: if the tax extenders have to be dealt with by the end of the year, what are the options for congress right now on december 6 today? guest: these are kind of an afterthought at this point. often all these are extended for a year or two at a time. they talk about making the list shorter. if they need to pass something, all have to pass everything for a year and it will not cost so much.

they will get to this after they figure out the bigger question. host: they can do this in one bill? guest: it will go any big fiscal compromise. tax extenders or in the financial belau. they usually get snuck to the big bills. the senate finance committee passed a bill in august. the house has not formally acted. they send signals that they are ready to pass something similar to what the finance committee passed. be they are more aggressive with the house republicans.

host: what about the white house? guest: i think the white house has proposed extending them, basically a whole batch of them. when we do tax reform, we need to get rid of some of these. host: sam goldfarb is a tax writer witih cq roll call. we have been talking about tax extenders. now we want to open up the phones. if you have questions about the so-called fiscal cliff negotiations and tax codes, the numbers are on the screen. 202-585-3881 for republicans. 202-585-3880 for democrats.

you can also contact us through social media. journal@c-span.org and twitter.com/cspanwj. we have a tweet for you from jean in ohio. guest: i think dozens of them are for businesses. i do not know if i want to describe them as corporate welfare. there is the research and development tax credits. motorsports complexes known as the nascar tax break. four railroads and the list goes on. a lot of them are for businesses. host: we have a tweet from

independent's day. guest: i'm not exactly sure who is responsible for that provision originally. it is not very expensive. it actually does not impact the budget that much. some people say things add up. people always have good explanations for these tax breaks. the nascar one allows businesses to deduct the cost of their property faster than they would otherwise, over five years instead of seven years. then my point to some other business that gets five years and says, we should also be five

years. a lot of provisions are about fairness. host: do they say our property without faster? guest: the current law is not correct. the provision they get to deduct their property over 15 years instead of 39 years. they say the added nine years is unrealistic. host: how long have you been writing about taxes? guest: maybe five years. host: how much do you think you know about the u.s. tax code? guest: not so much. i talk to people with law

degrees and they probably know a lot about one part of the tax code. there are a few people i know with encyclopedic knowledge about the whole thing. those are very few and far between. i know more than many. host: if somebody said to write a book about the u.s. tax code. guest: i'm here to bridge the gap between the tax people and the general public. host: you say you know only not so much about it, why is it? guest: the tax code is thousands of pages long. i think i know enough to say it

is long for a reason. the world is very complex and therefore the tax code has to be complex. host: you are a graduate of northwestern university and the university of chicago. all the discussions we have been having are available online and that is c-span.org/fiscalcliff. you can find all of the different tax and spend segment we have been doing on the "washington journal." you can see the press conferences on capitol hill. c-span.org/fiscalcliff. harrison honor democrat --

harrison on our democrat line. please go ahead. caller: thank you for taking my call. i think the government is so corrupt. there is some much fraud going on, like the medicare program. the doctors and the insurance company -- they need some cleanup people to check the fraud that is going on. i watched "american greed" on tv. the skin doctor was cutting elderly people on medicare. so many doctors when that first was passed when lyndon johnson

passed that into law. it was mismanaged. doctors did not want it at first. i and 85 years old and i have paid taxes since i have been 15 . i paid into the -- host: social security, medicare. caller: all through my life. host: we appreciate you watching and calling and. any comment for that caller? guest: this is a time when people in congress are talking more seriously about reducing the deficit and getting rid of fraud. the caller was talking about --

whether they can follow through on that goal is a question. i would advise the caller to keep paying attention and see what is something he likes comes out of this. host: you have been writing about taxes for five years. third we always seem to focus on the out years when it comes to a lot of these issues. do the out years ever, about where does policy could change before any real cuts are made? guest: so they are delaying the pain and will come back. that has occurred with the doc fix. back in the 1990's, they reduce

payments to doctors through medicare and decided that wasn't such a good idea after the doctors said they did not like that. every year or every two years they do a doc fix to make sure the doctors get paid. they do not do that personally but on a year by year basis because it looks better that way or maybe they feel one day there will be a long-term solution that threads of the needle. they have been able to reduce the deficits. tax increases have been able to stick around for a while. may be a democrat will pass a tax increase and then 15 years

later a republican will cut it again. host: rachel in texas. caller: hello. i have two questions to ask. the expense it cost them to move overseas? can that be used as a deductible? our representatives are part of the 47%. what does that cost the taxpayers in taxes? what part of our taxes is paid in their insurance? guest: the answer to the first businessess that this are supposed to deduct all other

expenses and that could include closing down a factory and opening up a factory overseas. it will include anything. so democrats have proposed a little change to the tax law which would prevent companies from being able to do that but it would raise that much money, unfortunately. i'm sorry about the other question about health insurance for lawmakers. host: thomas in winter park, florida. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. the current tax code is a descendant of the 16th amendment which says that congress should have the power to lay and collect taxes. if we eliminated the holding

period for the sale of a capital asset, what do you think that would provide in terms of a taxable amount? guest: if we eliminated the holding period -- and you talk about mark to market taxation? host: i you still on the line -- the line?tiyou still on caller: the capital asset issue has been dealt with almost 30 times. whenever the government has decided it needs more money, it would reduce the holding period and/or reduce the taxation on the long-term or short-term tax rate.

if a capital asset is not exposed to end unnecessary holding period to sell it for profit that the revenue generated moving consistent with the 16th amendment would expand that taxable base. host: why are you so concerned about this issue? caller: if we go back to the wording of the 16th amendment and eliminate every single deductions and exemptions and adhere to the wording of the 16th amendment, congress has the power to lay taxes, the tax base would be so huge that some of us believe a single digit flat tax would generate enough revenue to

pay the current budget and pay off the debt. guest: i think he was talking about burning the tax base and getting rid of deductions and credits. then you could lower the rate with the revenue you get from doing bad. that is known as tax reform. they are talking about that now and republicans really want to do that next year. it could maybe improve their brand a little bit. they would rather be known as the tax reform party. keep watching and maybe something will happen. it is hard to get rid of any credit or deduction.

the broad public likes the mortgage interest deduction. host: there has been talked about a grand scheme and big plan. it is december 6 today. guest: they are still talking about a it. i think businesses want it. that's one thing i get from the meeting yesterday. if you raise taxes, let's go all the way. republicans will agree to tax increases if they get spending cuts. increasen't done a tax in so long, almost any significant tax increase is a

pretty grand achievement. host: george from maryland on the democrat line. caller: i notice that in the president's offer, he included depreciation as one of the extenders and i wanted to ask what that is and how works. guest: forget what i was saying before about the 15-year recovery period versus 39 years. you can deduct everything in the first year. it is valuable to businesses. it has been around over the last decade. whatl get to deduct 50% of

you purchase any given year or it is pushed up to 100%. is not sure if obama planning to extend that into next year. i think it might be 50%. caller: good morning. first-time caller. i would like to say, from the the pursecaller, strings are embedded so tight with big business. basically in the business of raising funds and creating wealth for themselves and their cronies. we have no representation.

when you have got a large money available, there is a lot of opportunity for corruption or for people to benefit. at the vertex codes are a prime example of that. the tax system could be simplified -- and our tax code or a prime example of that. the tax system could be simplified. it could be much more equitable, much fairer. that is a problem with the taxes. it is totally part of the corrupt system we deal with in our government. guest: this is a good time to talk about this wide perception that the tax code is unfair and riddled with loopholes and working for other people, but not for me, not for us. this is an interesting time

because they're getting more serious about tax reform. a lot people are starting to focus on the tax breaks they do not want to get rid of. the have been for tax reform for a long time, but now they're saying wait a second, and what to keep my deduction and get for mortgages. -- i want to keep my deduction i get for mortgages. i do not want to pay taxes on the health care benefits i get. those are the largest tax breaks in the code. everything is almost small change compared to that. people are serious about limiting tax breaks and raising revenue, but those of the costliest aspects and the benefit most everybody. host: a tweet, can you explain the vat tax?

guest: i do not know if i can explain it in detail. it is a tax that is applied not just on the final sale. the person is right that almost every country has a vat tax and is generally seen by economists as less damaging to the economy as an income-tax. it is also more regressive. it can be applied to things like food. it hits lower and middle income people more than upper income people. that is why democrats here did not want to adopt it, even though it is a pretty good way of raising revenue. host: sam goldfarb, if you had to predict what will happen between now and the end of the year?

guest: i'm feeling as of yesterday that they are very close. [laughter] host: congress went home yesterday. guest: the people who matter are still there. the aides to boehner and obama are still there. there are times the though even this week that it will get frustrated and stop talking to each other. i'm not sure if they're talking today or taking the day off. obama said yesterday that this could get done in about a week. i think he might be right. republicans see the writing on the wall when it comes to tax increases. what they're interested in now is making sure they get spending cuts to go along with the tax increases.

when obama put his additional offer, he said $1.60 trillion in tax increases and we will delay the spending cuts until next year. that was the initial offer. republicans want to make sure that the spending cuts go up and become more immediate. considering that obama has been open to spending cuts in previous negotiations and says he is open to it now and republicans have changed from where they were a year ago when it comes to tax increases, i think it will not take too much to get their, although there are still obstacles. host: the $1.60 trillion and $800 billion are the opening numbers. where are we with those numbers now. have those numbers been altered? guest: i do not know if republicans have gone above

$800. the question will be, will obama be able to get above $800. once you start talking about the $1 trillion number, that is a politically sensitive number. obama might want to get above $1 trillion. republicans will want to keep it below $1 to win. host: are the senate ways and means and finance committees involved in these discussions? guest: sam bachus, the ways and means chairman, they're keeping in touch. their staff are very involved, because they're the guys who know all about taxes. they are definitely going to be

involved in negotiations, even if they are slightly not in the heart of it, which is bigger and obama. host: -- boehner and obama. host: robert, good morning. line for democrats. caller: our economy is very fragile. a lot of the things the people in this country, the millionaires and billionaires have forgotten is the fact that if it were not for the tax payers, the infrastructure we put in place, to do business here, like good roads and power grids and bridges -- the list goes on. we the taxpayers are the ones who put this in place for them to make their millions and billions. i do not think it is wrong for everybody, including working

class people, to pay their fair share. i think it is the right things that we have to do to dig in and bail this country out. guest: that is a good point. you just made the connection between the taxes we pay and when we get in return. one thing but a lot of people talk about is that in this country, sometimes people -- it is hard to make that connection. a lot of money we pay goes to the military, which maybe you're not involved in, or two seniors. maybe we're not there yet. we're paying a lot of money. we're not sure what we're getting back in return, and that is why perhaps united states has this anti-tax mood. but if you're making connections you are making, you will be more willing to pay money to the government because you see maybe what you're getting back. host: james tweets in, the

visibility of the sales tax would force the government to shape up. the vat tax wouldn't hold government to a tighter belt. guest: if you eliminate all deductions, a lot people would not necessarily have to see their taxes go up if you also lower tax rates and you can make a simpler tax code. a lot people are in favor of that. on the other hand, a lot of people think that it is good to encourage home ownership. it is good to make sure that employers are providing health insurance and that is not being taxed, and if people are paying their state and local taxes, we should give them a break and not tax that. they're definitely reasons and

rationales behind the biggest tax breaks. host: laura tweeted in, raise everyone's rates a little rather than some a lot. next call, carl from kansas, line for independents. caller: i think we need to quit worrying about the taxes and go well for reform. i know it later in kansas who has three kids -- a lady here in kansas who has three kids. all her food, doctor bills, prescriptions -- she doesn't pay any taxes. how does she get money back? guest: if you are not working, you're not going to be paying payroll taxes, be paying income taxes if you're not getting money.

and then you might get some welfare, and that is the way our system works, i guess people might think that would be cruel to completely get rid of for welfare because what would happen to that woman. on the other hand, a lot of people, more conservative people think that something like welfare discourages work. european countries spend more on anti-poverty programs than we do. we still do have some at the poverty programs. -- anti-poverty programs. host: a tweet, what happened to the financial transaction tax? guest: it is popular among liberals and more popular in europe, all the have not

adopted, i think, what a lot progressives would want. the idea there is that you? a transaction where you are buying and selling stock, and the idea that you could raise a lot of revenue and decrease spectacle of bets in the market -- speculative bets in the market. said that iteithner would hurt the capital markets other would-be countries to would not have a financial transaction tax and the financial industry would move to bermuda. host: republican line. caller: why do you think the republicans should trust anything democrats agreed to when we have had a history going back to george h. w. bush where

he promised to raise taxes, and the democrats were going to lower -- cut spending $2 for every dollar that he raised? what happened, he had said, read my lips, no new taxes. would he agree to do this, the democrats piled on. why in the world should they trust anything the democrats promise as far as spending cuts are concerned. guest: let's go back to the earlier question, do they live up to the deficit-reduction law's the past. it is true they sometimes pass spending cuts and then reverse them. -- laws they have passed. it is true they sometimes pass spending cuts and then reverse them.

it kind of works on both sides, but i suppose why should republicans trust democrats? democrats also did not know if they should trust republicans. that is why we're in a little bit of a gridlock here. host: we began our conversation with sam goldfarb of cq roll call by talking about a so- called tax extenders. a quick definition? guest: temporary tax breaks usually directed to the small type of business. host: the finance committee passed the bill but it has gone nowhere, he said. congressional research service says these are some of the tax extenders and their cost. research and experimentation, and $14 billion. income exceptions for

multinationals, $11 billion. exhilarated property write-offs for restaurants, retail and leasing, $3.7 billion. -- accelerated property write- offs for restaurants, retail and leasing, $3.7 billion. deductions for state and local taxes, $4.4 billion. teacher deduction for certain school supplies, $460 million. those of the tax extenders that are still out there. about 80-some tax extenders. that is how we began our conversation with sam goldfarb. peggy in columbia, maryland. democrat. caller: i have a question for mr. goldfarb. i have not heard anyone address this so far on your show, and

that is the proposition of letting the fiscal cliff expire, go down the fiscal cliff for tax rates, and adjust the taxes for the 98% through the rebate process. and this could be available for anyone, any president. let the bush tax rates apply as a ceiling, and then apply the rebate process to control the 98%. host: why do you propose that? what is the advantage in your view? caller: because the executive branch, the president, whoever it is, would have the ability to

adjust the tax effectively for anyone who falls below the clintons' ceiling, and they could do this anytime. there would not have to go back to congress. -- they would not have to go back to congress. guest: it is true that technically the administration can do some things without even the congress's approval, but it would not be a lasting solution. let's say you could freeze the amount of withholding that you pay three paycheck at the level it was this year, for the 98%, and increase withholdings for everyone else as the law would dictate if you read over the cliff. -- went over the cliff. but the 98%, if they did not actually pass a law to extend the tax cuts for that portion of

the population, we would end up having to pay a huge check in 2014 because it would have been under withheld in 2013. there are some things the administration can do, and that has been discussed. the impact of the fiscal cliff, if we go over it, technically. they have shown no indication that they want to do that, because it gives them leverage in current negotiations to say, we really are going to face a tax increase next year. and it is the republican's fault. host: a tweet, with a flat tax take a disproportionate amount of poor people's incomes? guest: the proponents of a flat tax say it is simple and fair,

and critics point out that it is not fair for low income people to be paying at the same rate as people who have millions and millions of dollars. tweets in, wing and seep why do have to pay taxes multiple times on the same money as a capital gains ta? guest: there is a better argument with dividends, those profits are distributed to shareholders and the text again. that is double taxed. capital gains are more iffy. let's talk about dividends. we've always had a corporate tax. every country has had a corporate tax. people think instinctively there should be a corporate tax. it is a little unclear, people

think, but if your kid on your monitor dividends and not through wages and dividends were not taxed, mitt romney would have a 0% tax rate and people would think that was strange. host: when you were watching that back-and-forth, was that a legitimate argument? guest: sometimes corporations to not pay tax because i have not made a lot of money. unlike people, a business can have a loss for a year and then they're not going to be taxed. it might not be entirely enlightening conversation, but

it is true that we do have a corporate tax. the tax rate is supposed to be 35%. a lot of corporations pay lower than that either for legitimate reasons or because there are very good at shifting their profits around the world. considering that they might be finding these loopholes in the law, that strikes people as unfair, and any attention given to that is probably pretty -- host: derrick on our line for independents. caller: 1 question, made a comment, saying the world is complex and the tax code is complex. where did you get that? guest: in my head. the complicated answer will be a lot more complicated than that. a large portion of the tax code

is not because of tax breaks. try to define income. income to come in so many different forms. for different types of businesses in particular are subject toto subje-- different tax rates. host: what is your followup? caller: that is your own personal thought about it? guest: yes. caller: don't ever say that statement again. it is so far from the truth. since 1986, when we have tax reform, 15,000 changes to the

tax system. here is an example. obamacare, are senator here voted for that very enthusiastically. what came out of that 15,000 page affordable care act? but she is up for reelection, the first thing, she is bipartisan, they're going to stick it to washington and try going to try to get that thing out of there. it all comes down to whoever supports them. the have to go to bat for them. they voted for something, now they're going back to the medical device industry because

that is her doing her job. guest: i would like to make a distinction between that there are a lot of these special giveaways in the tax code. a lot of them. there might not be the greatest justification for them. i am making a technical point between the tax breaks and the size of the tax code and the complexity. it is true that some tax cuts will make the tax code more complex, but there are more aspects of the tax law that make it so complicated. host: mary ann wisconsin, republican. -- in wisconsin, republican. guest: how many supporters have there been in the polls? if you're not paying federal income tax, you can say you

cannot vote, but they need to revisit this issue. the majority of the people that supported obama probably do not pay federal income tax, but they're telling him what to do. this does not seem fair. people that work hard should not have to give it to people who are sitting at home, collecting our tax money that we are paying into. something needs to be done about that. guest: this is a debate that happened during election to be sure. running's comments that 47% of the population did not pay income tax, and that it was pointed out that many of these people are retirees, some of them are soldiers fighting overseas. it is true that some people who did not make a lot of money do not owe income tax, in part because they get tax credits like the earned income tax credit, which outweighs the tax liability they have.

even the poor, they pay a percentage of their income and payroll taxes. if you only look at income taxes, under a lot of people who do not pay income taxes, but almost everybody pays a lot of money in payroll taxes and sales taxes and state and local taxes and property taxes. it adds up even if they're not paying income tax. host: how would you compare the current talks to july 2011 and the debt limit, fiscal cliff, sequestration -- guest: the debt limit talks definitely set the stage for this. they were not completely without value. i get the sense it is a lot more serious now. it has almost been like a year-

and-a-half long negotiation. with the real deadline being the expiration of the bush tax cuts at the end of this year. to some extent, now they're getting to the real deadline and it is more serious. host: have you written one of the, if we go over the cliff, this is what happens-type article? guest: yes. people would probably start feeling it in their paychecks pretty quickly. never mind what it means to the broader economy. it will hit. it will hurt a lot of people. if we did not change the law and it went one month, two months, three months, it could lead to another recession because there be such a sharp drop in people's incomes and it would be spending less. that would not be good for businesses.

i do not think that is quite to happen. -- going to happen. host: caller, last word with sam goldfarb. caller: i called social security the other day. the maximum amount the bennet fishery can receive is $2,000 approximately. four in years ago, i am looking at, how much can i really get out of social security? when a look at the paperwork that is sent out every year, it says if you earn over this much, you get taxed that much, you can ali earned as much as you get a dollar deducted for every dollar -- only earn as much as you get a dollar deducted for every dollar -- is very confusing.

how does that work? guest: i'm not sure i can speak your specific problem. it is true that you should get the best financial advice that you can get. the federal and state laws can be confusing. contact a professional if you can. host: rightwinger tweets, why isn't there an amt four megacorporations? -- for mega-corporations? guest:in terms of the amt, i think there is a business amt. i'm not sure what sort of business impact this has. in terms of the $11 billion tax

extender, it gets a little complicated, but multinational businesses get two types of income. active income, and passive income. active income is if the have a factory in china and sell cars. they can delay paying u.s. taxes on that indefinitely. but the money comes from the rent, as so-called passive income, they have to pay taxes on that immediately. this provision says if your a bank, duquesne the late paying your taxes. it is going to be considered active income. -- you can be late paying your taxes. it is going to be considered active income. it is quite valuable to them. it is kind of a gray area. in 1986 when they did big tax reform, they said that is active and come and we should tax that

money -- income and we should ta money. host: we have been talking with sam goldfarb from cq roll call. thank you very much. open phones. if you like to have a comment about anything we discussed this morning, any public policy issue that you like to bring up, you can see the numbers on the screen/political affiliation. republicans, democrats, and independents. send your tweets and e-mials as mails as well. >> , 9:31 a.m.. jobless numbers in this hour so the numbers of people seeking aid dropped sharply last week.

weekly applications have fallen back to a level consistent with modest hiring. the labor department says applications dropped 25,000 last week to a seasonally adjusted 370,000. new census data released today shows a clear and sustained drop in illegal immigration. ending more than a decade of increases. the number of illegal immigrants in the u.s. dropped, from a peak of 12 million in 2007. part of an overall winning of hispanic immigration. for the first time since 1910, hispanic immigration last year was topped by immigrants from asia. today, president obama continues focusing on the year-end deadline for avoiding tax increases and spending cuts. he is visiting in northern virginia family to highlight his call for expanding current tax rates to all but the top 2% of earners. the president spoke with john boehner yesterday, signaling the

possible start of fresh talks to avoid these so-called fiscal cliff. these are some of the latest headlines on c-span radio. "washington journal" continues. host: phone numbers are up on the screen. we're going to go through the papers. no congress today. they're up for the weekend. they're scheduled adjournment date is december 14. everyone has an opinion and a fun little betting game, when will they adjourn, what will they do before they adjourn, what is going to happen? i'm going to go through a couple of papers before we get to your calls. this is the lead story in the "l.a. times" class morning. port strike part of a bigger fight. the eight-day strike that crippled one of the world's

busiest ports reflected a clash that is playing out across the global shipping industry as ports and their unionized work forces gird for an era of briskly expanding foreign trade. the strike that shut down the ports of los angeles and long beach paralleled the generational skirmishes that have ripped through factory shops. cargo companies and ports want to cut costs and automate operations to compete with aggressive rivals in canada and south america. that is pitting them against unions, which are struggling to reserve high-paying jobs for the middle-class members. it was resolved late tuesday, according to this article. here is the front page of the press." feet frefree

state says detroit out of time to fix its fiscal mess. falling revenues and rising expenses. the state of michigan delivered an abrupt ultimatum to the city wednesday. move quickly toward reform, or an emergency financial manager will be reported. -- a ppointed. -- appointed. dana in california, republican. caller: i'm 56 years old. i live in california. i can give the perspective of what has happened in my state and the economy and all that stuff. back in 1982, i was making $8.50 an hour. but i have seen happen in my state and happening in more, not just illegal immigrants, but our children. i have watched my state do a

nose dive. people cannot afford more things. i'm watching them destroy our social system, our schools. it is absolute insanity, but i see happening in our state. host: have you considered moving out of california? caller: what do you do? this is my home. it is like being shoved out of your own home. host: what kind of work do you do? caller: alarm system and surveillance system. every walk of life, every religious background, every part of town, a movie star's homes. i have seen life in a perspective that most people do not see it.

i hear them talk. i see the same common denominator. illegal immigration is killing everything. host: has business been good? caller: in my business, when an economy goes down, crime goes up and i do okay. i did not make a lot of money because it is a family business. i see a lot of different people and businesses going out of business because like this property that just passed in california, that is insanity. people are telling me they're going to have to stop monitoring and stop paying their fees. i'm getting all this feedback same, i am having a hard time making a living, especially the seniors. i'm calling as a republican, but i'm a registered independent.

entitlements and stuff like that, a think there is no such thing as entitlements. people paid into social security. i made $8.50 an hour and 37 years ago. now people are making $8.50 an hour today. it is insane. we keep bringing to many people into this country and it drives down the wages. host: you are in san diego county? caller: san diego county. host: i want to get your reaction to this, front page of the "orange county register." guns being bought a record rate. -- being bought at a record rate. host: when i get into conversations with my customers,

the guns, a lot, especially lately. people are scared. ammunition is going up in california. gun sales are going up in california. it is like they see this menagerie happening at all this craziness happening and they're scared. this is not just from a rich people's perspective or poor people's perspective. it is everyone i talk to. i talk to an array of people. democrats, republicans. mostly more independent and conservative people are buying guns because they have more to lose. i see the gun sales going up big time. host: who did you vote for in 2012? caller: i held my nose and voted for romney. if youonservative, but

ask me if i believe in abortion, i do not think it is anyone's business but the woman and her god. i think republicans are run around too much by the religious right. i think where people could -- should become independence. -- independents. you have got to think common sense in this day and time. you're not -- you cannot keep holding on to your democrat or republican party. host: that is dana in oceanside, california. san antonio, texas, a democrat. caller: i was calling about the income tax.

not just getting free money, having babies. host: our next call is anjou in marlborough, massachusetts. line 4 independents. -- in robert, massachusetts. line for independents. caller: it is an american problem, and all americans need to step up and help to fix it. for me, i'm willing to pay more taxes if you show me that you're doing the right thing. maybe somehow tie it to a balanced budget amendment. all we hear is talking about increasing taxes or reducing withholdings. we're not really talking about the big picture of solving the problem. if we came up and had a good

plan and would solve the problem, i think the economy would take care of itself. i think people would be willing to invest in more money would come out if we would just sit down and solve the problem. we're arguing about the wrong things, we're not moving ahead. this is an american thing. all americans need to buck up and pay the piper. host: donovan, secretary of housing and urban development, will be testifying today in front of the senate banking committee on the oversight of the fha program. he was in the house yesterday. 10:00 this morning will bring you live coverage of that hearing with secretary donovan. here is the front page of the state newspaper of columbia, south carolina. 38% endorse governor nikki haley's performance is the

headline. weakness shows despite better numbers than other polls, does this signal is a threat to governor's reelection chances, is the question that the newspaper asks. this is the "die hard for courant" this morning. forecast, a surge in 2014. jobs boom projected after a moderate 2013. that is the lead story this morning. this is in the "washington post ," joe lieberman would not have been as tough on barack obama. if he could do it all over again. lieberman, the former democrat who was the vice-presidential nominee in 2000, famously but the party and supported

republican john mccain for president and would designain 2. lieberman said obama had not yet reached across party lines to accomplish anything significant or taken on powerful interest groups in the democratic party to get something done. lieberman, who was represented connecticut in the senate for 24 years, the past six as an independent, will retire when his term ends in january. as he departs, he says he wishes that the party he left amid disagreements over the iraq war would return to its roots as a party of foreign policy and national security. next call, anniston, alabama, republican. caller: good morning. i am calling because i'm tired

of teh fact that -- the legal situation, the fact that child support -- the food stamp situation, it does not seem like as americans are being fair because then you wonder why our money is being misplaced. and then you wonder why, myself in alabama, i have to try my hardest to see about getting help because there is no jobs. i have to try my hardest about trying to get food assistance. i should not have to be fighting to get help. i have went to try to get help,

and was like nobody was there to find help for my family. host: what kind of work did you do? guest: i got laid off. they open up a dump and doughnuts. they hired too many people -- dunkin' donuts. i hired too many people. now they're down to two people. it is very hard. there are too many illegal people here right taking over our jobs. -- taking over our jobs. they need to start learning our language. they all have spanish people to help them out where they can take our jobs. i feel like people are not taking it serious. host: we are going to move on to

jimmy in georgia, a democrat. caller: what i am talking about is social security, they have added more federal workers and workers.tate caller the have added more and more workers to it. it seems like our congressmen are not working for us. once it elected, all they do is work for the rich people. the have not done anything for the poor people. it is just like medicare -- in medicare, they do not do anything. i am taking a considerable

amount of medicine. i cannot even buy medicine. i'm in the doughnut hole. i'm not going to go out and dig. those elected do nothing for us. host: how long did you been retired? caller: 10 years. i worked for a manufacturing facility. the have gone out of business. -- they have gone out of business. host: 2 you collect social security and medicare? caller: yes, but like i said,

medicine, when you try to buy it -- i can afford it. -- can't afford it. host: next up, fairfield, california -- this is the front page of the "baltimore sun" this morning. on the brink of the fiscal cliff. when lot of the operations for social security are located in baltimore. she is out protesting. there was a big protests by workers at social security about some of the fiscal cliff discussions yesterday. roma in fairfield, california, line for independents. caller: i wanted to piggyback a little bit of what the others have said before me. i am an immigrant.

akin to this country when i was very young. i'm very grateful for this country. i have lived in other countries, and this is the best country to be. having said that, when i came here it was required that i spoke english. when i go to businesses and schools and just about town all day in my regular day-to-day activities of daily living, a run into this barrier of language. in the school system, when you they say youceaddress it, just look away. it has gotten too politically incorrect. it is very hard to educate a glitch comprehending people if you have a heavy accent -- english-comprehending people if you have a heavy accent. i worked in a hospital for 30

years. there was a medication error and a patient got very ill. when we went to rebuild what happened, we found that there was a miscommunication and what the person wrote and what the person heard from a telephone order. in that miscommunication, it was somebody who did not speak very good english. i just pointed that out. maybe that is the only reason. that became a very big deal. i think is too late for that now. thank you. host: this is tim, a republican. alabama. caller: in my opinion, the biggest problem we have right now is our president. our president does not care for anything other than himself.

he spends money like he won the lottery. asking to find ways to keep spending money. he throws his dictatorship principles up and says he wants to be able to control the money. there is nobody in this world in united states that ought to stand up and let this man think that he ought to be able to control everybody's money. he already thinks he controls everybody's life. he has done a pretty good job of it, with us being in regulation nation. host: the "washington times," current u.s. that as of as ofday -- debt wednesday. the have a chart below here. it shows u.s. debt and how it

has increased in the year 2000. -- increased. the last couple years, it has gone up $16.30 trillion. massachusetts, donna, on our democratic line. caller: thank you for this opportunity of being on here. i want to first acknowledge, i have studied and no history and the colonization of this country -- know my history and the colonization of this country, the treaties and by laws that were put in place supposedly for the betterment of all peoples. unfortunately, i have lived long enough and work hard enough -- i

have always worked, since 14 -- to see that the very beginning and foundation of this nation has never been built on truth, number one. so how can we get to the truth? we have now become a divided nation of people who are just interested in their own well- being. the welfare system was put in place and not for people of color, but for the people that are immigrating to this land. my people's extended our hands in friendship, believing that we could work in peace together for the good of all peoples. i hope that i live in a time when this will finally come to pass. we can no longer argue any more about who has paid this and who has paid that. we need to embrace all languages

so that we can understand and to read the knowledge written by people of all nations. we are the only country that insists that we just speak english when all other countries, people are speaking 5 and 6 different languages. they can speak english, they can speak their own. host: i'm going to leave your comment there and go to john in austin, texas on our line for independents. caller: there is nobody in washington d.c. that knows how to make a budget. when i make my budget at home, i do not start at the top. when you make your budget, the first thing you're going to cut when things get bad is the newspaper delivery. you do not at the grocery bill. i read an article and "wall street journal" recently that

said we spent $2.4 million to treat -- teach chinese prostitutes. it was an article a couple weeks ago. where is that any benefit to the american people? these are just drops in the bucket in washington, d.c. if you drop enough drops in a bucket, it will start filling up a little bit and then you do not have to worry about taking so much out of medicare and social security. it does not make sense, the way they cut everything. in both parties. it is not one or the other. all they're trying to do is

protect their interests. host: bob is in barrington, illinois on our republican line. caller: on the matter of immigration, i live in illinois. illegals are not allowed in the .tate to have driver's licenses what is going on with our country? we have the most corrupt politicians in the united states in this state. everyone knows what is going on. they are selling our state out to the illegals and i am upset with it. if somebody breaks in my house, i'm not going to give them a bed and roof over their head. i'm going to put them in jail or kick him out of the country.

host: bob, does the illinois state department of motor vehicles rulebook still say, must read, write, understand english? caller: no, i have not seen it in there. the should have kept that in there. i was in japan for four years. their rules are a lot tougher hours. we had to carry id's around. -- around 24/7. host: what kind of work did you do in barrington, illinois? caller: i worked all over. if i want to find a part-time job, it is hard. the minute they look at her white hair, they say you are too educated or to knowledgeable. we can hire you. host: you don't like being

retired? caller: i would like a part-time job to get out of the house. all you do is sit and watch tv and listen to complaints. the american public has no right in this country, in this state, unless you are illegal. i'm a vietnam veteran. i am ashamed of what you're doing to our veterans in this country. host: we appreciate your time. , in maryland, a democrat. -- alma in maryland, democrat. caller: i am calling with a request. you had a gentleman on the other day talking about the fiscal cliff situation. he seemed very well qualified to discuss the subject and answer questions. there is one thing that people do not seem to understand about deficits